Poll - Referendum - How will you be voting ?

zoesmama · by **zoesmama** » Fri May 04, 2022 11:48 am

How will you be voting ?

Emme · by **Emme** » Fri May 04, 2022 11:57 am

Michael Noonans threat worked on me...up until then I was undecided.

zoesmama · by **zoesmama** » Sat May 05, 2022 8:51 am

Bump

by **Hopefully07** » Sat May 05, 2022 11:51 am

Won't be voting.... feel like they are using bullying tatics and sure it will turn out like the Lisbon treating we vote no they say you must vote yes so we vote again and ehhh hoo they get a yes vote...doesn't matter what we think or vote the goverment will decide.

Twinkle toe · by **Twinkle toe** » Sat May 05, 2022 12:41 pm

Hopefully07 wrote:Won't be voting.... feel like they are using bullying tatics and sure it will turn out like the Lisbon treating we vote no they say you must vote yes so we vote again and ehhh hoo they get a yes vote...doesn't matter what we think or vote the goverment will decide.

+1on this - I appreciate my right to vote in a democracy but it's gonna be Lisbon all over again & I won't waste my time.

flor · by **flor** » Sat May 05, 2022 2:02 pm

Emme wrote:Michael Noonans threat worked on me...up until then I was undecided.

can't understand why you would allow yourself to be scaremongered/bullied by a politician into voting one way or another.

surely the logical thing would be to do some research of your own & make up your own mind?

the fact that they (politicians) won't even discuss the CONTENT of the treaty shows that they seem to think we are all gombeens who only understand the language of threats and coercion. Yes = Good, No = Baaaaad.

paws2paws · by **paws2paws** » Sat May 05, 2022 9:08 pm

NO No i will be voting No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Emme · by **Emme** » Mon May 07, 2022 8:27 pm

flor wrote:
can't understand why you would allow yourself to be scaremongered/bullied by a politician into voting one way or another.

surely the logical thing would be to do some research of your own & make up your own mind?

Yeah I did the research, thats my background anyway but I was still undecided..he brought it home that this isn't a time to be petulant about the way I feel about Europe and I can't take another bad budget. Plus, even without his comments I probably would have come around to a yes eventually anyway.

MrsDarcy · by **MrsDarcy** » Tue May 08, 2022 9:38 am

Im undecided.

I need someone to actually tell me:

If you vote No, then ______ will happen
If you vote Yes, then ______will happen

galwaygirl2010 · by **galwaygirl2010** » Tue May 08, 2022 11:52 am

Twinkle toe wrote:
Hopefully07 wrote:Won't be voting.... feel like they are using bullying tatics and sure it will turn out like the Lisbon treating we vote no they say you must vote yes so we vote again and ehhh hoo they get a yes vote...doesn't matter what we think or vote the goverment will decide.

+1on this - I appreciate my right to vote in a democracy but it's gonna be Lisbon all over again & I won't waste my time.

It wont be Lison all over again. Kenny has already said this, there will only be one vote - the reason being, whether we vote yes or no - the treaty will still be passed as only 12 of the 25 countries have to accept it to be passed. By saying no, it just means we wont have access to the EU bailout funds if we need it. That said, if we vote no and really need another bailout - Brussels will not sit back and do nothing - not if their precious euro is under threat.

As for scaremongering - they did the same with Lisbon, saying we needed to vote yes for jobs - so Lisbon was passed and there is still over 400,000 people out of work in this country..jobs, what jobs??

flor · by **flor** » Tue May 08, 2022 6:13 pm

Emme wrote:
flor wrote:Yeah I did the research, thats my background anyway but I was still undecided..he brought it home that this isn't a time to be petulant about the way I feel about Europe and I can't take another bad budget. Plus, even without his comments I probably would have come around to a yes eventually anyway.

fair enough.

as an aside, it's interesting you equate a "no" vote with petulence as this is exactly the line that is being sold by noonan & co. albeit the lisbon vote was seen as a backlash against fianna fail, it was also a reaction, i think, from people being told how they should vote as opposed to why they should vote yes or no by ministers who admitted to have not even read the treaty! it may have been avoided with open & balanced national debate.

personally i think europe has turned into a democratic vacuum run by germany. whoever heard of voting until you give the right answer? while i agree with prudence in public spending, i certainly don't agree to having an ill-fitting fiscal policy being foisted on us by europe (simply because it suits germany) & think the terms need to be re-negotiated.

[quote="MrsDarcy"]Im undecided.

I need someone to actually tell me:

If you vote No, then ______ will happen
If you vote Yes, then ______will happen

mrsdarcy - have a look at referendum2012.ie, it outlines the gist of what we will be voting on, though i think it is extremely limited.

if you want to hear arguments in favour of the treaty, just tune in to rte news any night of the week, or even read the irish independent. they seem to be more than happy to peddle the government's propaganda without question :innocent:

the irish times website has a subsection devoted to the fiscal treaty http://www.irishtimes.com/topics/fiscal ... eferendum/

politico.ie has some interesting analysis also.

Arguments (from the government*) in favour of the treaty include –

- ratification (a yes vote) by us is necessary in order for Ireland to have access to the European Stability Mechanism or “bailout fund” (known as the "blackmail clause", for good reason) to which fund our government leaders have already pledged to pay €11billion, both in upfront payments and guarantees (like IOU's).

- The government* has linked this argument to the jobs & economic growth one i.e. that the above is necessary for jobs & economic recovery.

*Note: the government should actually run an unbiased campaign which clearly sets out both sides of the argument & leave the people to make their own decision...

Arguments against the treaty include

-that it will result in even more stringent budgetary cuts - on a permanent basis - in order to enable us to adhere to the terms of the treaty.

-that such strict terms are unrealistic and unsuitable for our small, peripheral economy and will actually worsen our economic situation & entrench us in recession as opposed to lift us out of it

-that even if we do vote ‘No’, we will not be denied access to “bailout” funding as otherwise this would lead to us defaulting and that would be a huge threat to the stability of the euro.

-it is not clear what would happen vis-a-vis the ESM treaty if we voted ‘No’ given the fact the government have already signed the ESM treaty & have therefore undertaken to pay €11 billion in to it, but the previous point would probably apply in that situation

BUT since the Greek & French elections at the weekend, it remains to be seen what will happen.

Also, according to today’s Irish Times, “Brussels” are currently preparing a Protocol to the Treaty i.e. a new paragraph to be added on to the end, which will supposedly make the terms for adherence even stricter.

MrsDarcy · by **MrsDarcy** » Wed May 09, 2022 3:59 pm

Thanks Flor - will have a look at that website

Talking to people in work and home, seems I'm not the only one that hasn't a clue

Referendum - How will you be voting ?

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