Minding Rescue Dog need advice Update

highbeam · by **highbeam** » Thu Apr 19, 2022 8:51 am

Hi Ladies,

We are having our first attempt at fostering a dog. One local charity is always advertising looking for fosters I thought about it for ages and decided to do it so I filled in the form and sent it off. I wasn't sure if we were suitable as we both work full time, though can pop in and out at lunch time a couple of days a week. We also have an unneutered male dog, though he is very friendly. But they said they would make sure to match us with a dog that could cope with all of the above.
So I got a call they wanted us to take in a dog, so we have her a few days now. Mostly its going ok but she hates being left on her own and isn't house trained. Our dog spends most of his time indoors and sleeps in the house. But I can't trust her in the house at night so I have let her sleep in our conservatory, as soon as we go to bed she howls for an hour, our dog goes downstairs and sits in the kitchen looking at her through the glass doors for a while, its like he is trying to comfort her. I woke up at half 2 this morning and she was howling again. And then again at 7 this morning. Every morning when I go down she has done 3 or 4 poos and weed in the conservatory. I didn't want to leave her outside all night but I think Im going to have to. Though I can imagine our neighbours might not be too pleased.
I don't want to give her back till she finds a home and I know it takes some time to settle in but I'm just not sure we are the right place for her - though our house is obviously better then the pound - she loves company and we are not there enough hours of the day for her, I can't leave her in with our dog all day as shes not house trained but also robs shoes, gloves, socks whatever is lying around. I'm afraid to leave our dog outside with her when Im not there to keep an eye on them, hes much bigger and Im worried he might hurt her when they are playing (they play chasing, hes not aggressive and they are getting along well)
Maybe I'm feeling guilty that we took her in and it is much harder than I thought it would be. I think getting up to piles of poop every morning are what is most disheartening as our dog is house trained so well and its a long time since we dealt with having to clean up for 10 minutes every morning and we are not home enough to train her, she is fine in the evenings. I dont know if it is the stress of being alone that is making her do it.
Any advice on how to improve the situation for us and for her? We house trained our dog but he was a pup and it just seemed much easier, I don't know where to start with her.

morningsun · by **morningsun** » Thu Apr 19, 2022 8:59 am

Firstly fair play to you for fostering, it’s a really good thing to do. Don’t give up on this dog yet, I am sure that whatever company she is getting from you will be a lot more than she would get in a rescue or pound so you can only do your best. Can totally understand how waking up to poo and wee in the mornings is really disheartening. When we got our pup I remember the celebrations after the nights of clean beds and no cleaning to be done :o0

Is crate training an option? Just it sounds like this could be the answer, the dog is obviously very scared and doesn’t know what is happened so needs to feel secure and I think if you try to make the crate into a “den” where she feels safe could help with this. It will obviously be very helpful for the house training aswell.

SaraD08 · by **SaraD08** » Thu Apr 19, 2022 9:08 am

Firstly - well done on fostering... it’s such a nice thing to do, I would love to do it also but my working hours are crap, I’m gone for usually 12 hours a day, plus our own fella is perfectly behaved (after years of training) and i don’t think i could handle all the disruption etc... so well done to you guys! O-O

The getting up to poo / wee I can only imagine how frustrating that must be especially since your dg is fully trained.... can i ask when do you feed her?
Possibly changing her feeding times may help with her pooing at night time, plus a long walk before bed time can usually help them empty their bowels (sorry TMI

)

– this may also help reducing her pooing at night time. Or you could try the dog training pads or possibly putting down paper for her?
Crate training may aslo work, I havent done it myself but you could ask the resuce centre if they had a spare crate?
She probably very nervous at the moment too and will settle down after a few days / a weeks or so.

With regard to her howling, I supposed this is to be expected giving her circumstances... have you thought about allowing your guy to sleep in your conservatory with her? I’m sure all she wants is company and this may help a lot. Even if he is bigger than her, dogs a resilient animals, she will be fine a bit of rough and tumble won’t hurt her.

What type of dog is she? How old is she?

highbeam · by **highbeam** » Thu Apr 19, 2022 9:16 am

Haha I remember the poop free morning celebrations too! :o0

They were such an achievement. I have never done crate training but maybe it would help. She has very little training so we are starting at the beginning with sit and walking on the lead. Are crates expensive? Although I don't think you can put a price on poop free mornings!

SaraD she is a small collie about 2 years old. I didnt know whether to let him sleep out there with her. He is very much used to his comforts and likes being in the house, he has a puzzled look at being outside so much with her. His basket is in our bedroom so he sleeps there most nights. I didnt want to disrupt his routine too much I thought it would be unfair. I am feeding them in the morning about 7:45 and in the evening about 7:30, just nuts and maybe some leftover potatoes or chicken from dinner. But she will scavenge any food she can in the evenings. If our dog leaves any leftovers she gobbles them up. Yesterday I picked up his bowl when he was finished and only put it down again when I put her out for the night. I didnt have any newspapers in the house last night so will buy one today.

ETA walked them last night at 9. Could only go for 20 minutes and a bit of a run around the green. At half 10 I brought her out to the garden for 10 minutes to see if she would do anything. But no. And 4 poops to clean up this morning :weep

SaraD08 · by **SaraD08** » Thu Apr 19, 2022 10:01 am

SaraD she is a small collie about 2 years old. I didnt know whether to let him sleep out there with her. He is very much used to his comforts and likes being in the house, he has a puzzled look at being outside so much with her. His basket is in our bedroom so he sleeps there most nights. I didnt want to disrupt his routine too much I thought it would be unfair. I am feeding them in the morning about 7:45 and in the evening about 7:30, just nuts and maybe some leftover potatoes or chicken from dinner. But she will scavenge any food she can in the evenings. If our dog leaves any leftovers she gobbles them up. Yesterday I picked up his bowl when he was finished and only put it down again when I put her out for the night. I didnt have any newspapers in the house last night so will buy one today.

have you though about feeding her once a day? it wil mean by the evening she wont have any poo left :-8

and this may help :thnk

I feed my cockcer at 7am, he mostly eats it all, they very odd time he leaves some for his evening meal. hes not starving at all, its worth a try?

as she has not been trained properly etc, she will scavenage, most rescused / strays will do this.... maybe feed them seperately?

morningsun · by **morningsun** » Thu Apr 19, 2022 10:09 am

I could be totally off base here but I would see the pooping at night as a reaction to her surroundings and feeling scared rather than an actual need to poo.

I think our crate cost about €90 in Argos (its way too big for a cocker spaniel but we bought the large one so we could continue to use it forever. she still uses it as her bed now (over 2 years later) and loves it. In fact only last weekend she was away in a home boarding situation and we brought her crate for comfort – whenever she got sick of playing with the other dogs she popped in and took a break for half an hour then came back out ready to play again so it is definitely her safe haven. If you are considering crate training and want me to post details of how we did it please let me know and I will do it this afternoon.

Personally I am not in favour of feeding a dog only once a day and couldn’t do it to my one. I don’t think it would help a rescue dog who is a scavenger either especially if she was neglected previously. It is better if she has a routine of knowing when her next meal is going to be and she will eventually become secure in the fact that she will be fed that evening so won’t feel the need to scavenge.

highbeam · by **highbeam** » Thu Apr 19, 2022 10:24 am

Its very likely she is going to the loo because of the stress of being left on her own at night. I am feeding them separately at the minute but our dog wouldnt always eat all his nuts straight away. He usually goes back to them closer to bed time. So she is coming and in and eating the leftovers so I took the bowl away before I let her in and put it down again for him when I put her out for the night. I might try feeding her straight away when I get home from work in the evening. She is very skinny so I think she probably needs the two meals a day, she wolfs down food when its put down in front of her. I think Ill go to the pet shop this evening and look at crates. Dont have a lot of money to spend on one but might be able to figure something out. Shes a lovely dog other than this problem, so I hope she finds a permanent home.

morningsun · by **morningsun** » Thu Apr 19, 2022 11:46 am

if you are stuck for money argos do cheap enough ones

http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Browse/ID ... 99%7C2.htm

can’t really vouch for the quality but it would do for a while. Otherwise I know I saw a thread on the Animals & Pet Issues forum on boards.ie for cheap crates. Also put up a post here and on facebook in case anyone has one going spare – a lot of people use them for pups and then don’t use them when the dogs are bigger so they might lend you one. However just to note the crate won’t be an instant fix as you won’t be able to lock her in straight away.

The key is to make her feel safe in it so what we did was cover the crate in an old duvet so it is dark and covered and gives it a den feel. Leave the door open and let her explore around it during the evening when ye are just sitting around. Then sit outside the crate on the floor throwing high value treats like chicken and sausage into the crate so she associates it with food that she loves. I would also feed her two meals to her in it – again this builds up a good association. I think we waited 2 or 3 days before locking the door, depending on how confident she is with it you can start by closing the door for 30 seconds when you feel she is ready for it. then you can start locking her in for short periods of time but I would say it will take a week to build up to locking her in overnight. If you don’t take it slowly she could get really scared and hate it forever. Again this depends on the dog, I did it with a tiny scared puppy so it might be different with an adult dog.

Could you try leaving a radio on low for her in the conservatory? it might just help her feel more at ease and if there are any strange noises outside that she is reacting to it might drown them out.
Try feeding her earlier like when you get home from work, also try to keep a routine with her for the time being if that is possible at all, dogs love routine so again it might just help her feel more secure if she knows she is fed at 8am, walked at a certain time, fed again at 6pm etc
Hopefully this will all be worth it and will ultimately help the poor doggie find her forever home!

highbeam · by **highbeam** » Thu Apr 19, 2022 11:56 am

Thanks for that morning sun. Will definitely get a routine going for her and will look into getting a crate. Not sure about the radio she pulls everything down at night. Last nights victim was a boxset of 24. Hoping over the weekend things will settle down a bit more and we can get more organised. Thanks girls I was so disheartened this morning but will make some changes and hope it helps.

morningsun · by **morningsun** » Thu Apr 19, 2022 12:05 pm

Oh god love ya, it really is tough going, I was dying for another dog there for a while but kinda gone off the idea again when I remembered how bad the first few months were and when I look at how our dog is now I wouldn’t like to upset the good thing we have going on. This time next year might look at getting another one. Would definitely love to foster down the line when we get a house with proper garden and stuff.
It will take time but you will get there with her, do you have a high shelf or anything you could put the radio on? God that is really annoying alright, she was probably never trained properly or anything in her previous home.

Sorrentowife has done a lot of good work with her dog that she got at 18months and had to be completely retrained so hopefully she will be on later on and might have some advice. Also its proof that it can be done!
Over the weekend maybe try putting the dogs outside together unsupervised for small periods of time to see how they get on together.

highbeam · by **highbeam** » Thu Apr 19, 2022 12:12 pm

I was really eager to get another dog so thought fostering would be good intro to see what its like and now I think we are blessed with the dog we have. The grass is not always greener :o0

..... But am happy to help out this poor little dog she definitely needs some love.
Ive read about SW's dog training so might look through some of the posts see if I can see anything else that will help.

trance · by **trance** » Thu Apr 19, 2022 12:22 pm

We had EXACTLY the same problems when we fostered a second dog (who we ended up keeping!)

Firstly, you're feeding her too late in the evenings, personally I think feeding twice a day is better but feed early morning (6/7am whatever is convenient) then try and feed no later than 3pm or 4pm, or if you can only get home at lunchtime and then you're not home till after 4pm, feed at lunchtime.

How many times is she pooping in the day and what are they like? Does she fart a lot? This is the problem we had with Lily, she was and is on a very good quality food but she was just so anxious, we were her third home and she'd been in the shelter a good few months, so she just needed time, do you know the dogs back story?

We crated her at night and this stopped the pooping at night time, although it took a while for the howling to stop, I tried the odd night leaving her out of the crate but inevitably there would be a nice poop and pee on the floor in the morning!! After about 5 or 6 weeks the farting subsided, the poops got more solid and I left her out of the crate and we have pretty much had poop free mornings ever since.

So my advice is give the dog some time, it's only been a few days, get a crate (maybe the rescue could loan you one?), check her diet (make sure you're feeding a good quality food) and feed earlier and also is she getting enough exercise to wear her out?

Good luck, get back and let us know!

BusyDee · by **BusyDee** » Thu Apr 19, 2022 12:22 pm

morningsun wrote:I could be totally off base here but I would see the pooping at night as a reaction to her surroundings and feeling scared rather than an actual need to poo.

Personally I am not in favour of feeding a dog only once a day and couldn’t do it to my one. I don’t think it would help a rescue dog who is a scavenger either especially if she was neglected previously. It is better if she has a routine of knowing when her next meal is going to be and she will eventually become secure in the fact that she will be fed that evening so won’t feel the need to scavenge.

+1 totally agree, one of ours that was dumped at my house as a pup was scavenging for the first 2 years nearly, we nearly did (actually Im pretty sure we did!) a dance the day she left a few nuts behind her in her bowl! She finally realised that we would always feed her :lvs

I would be inclined to try the crate aswell.

Ah the poor thing Im sure she's only delighted to get out of the pound and into a loving home environment! Fair play to ya O-O

highbeam · by **highbeam** » Thu Apr 19, 2022 12:35 pm

trance wrote:We had EXACTLY the same problems when we fostered a second dog (who we ended up keeping!)

Firstly, you're feeding her too late in the evenings, personally I think feeding twice a day is better but feed early morning (6/7am whatever is convenient) then try and feed no later than 3pm or 4pm, or if you can only get home at lunchtime and then you're not home till after 4pm, feed at lunchtime.

How many times is she pooping in the day and what are they like? Does she fart a lot? This is the problem we had with Lily, she was and is on a very good quality food but she was just so anxious, we were her third home and she'd been in the shelter a good few months, so she just needed time, do you know the dogs back story?

We crated her at night and this stopped the pooping at night time, although it took a while for the howling to stop, I tried the odd night leaving her out of the crate but inevitably there would be a nice poop and pee on the floor in the morning!! After about 5 or 6 weeks the farting subsided, the poops got more solid and I left her out of the crate and we have pretty much had poop free mornings ever since.

So my advice is give the dog some time, it's only been a few days, get a crate (maybe the rescue could loan you one?), check her diet (make sure you're feeding a good quality food) and feed earlier and also is she getting enough exercise to wear her out?

Good luck, get back and let us know!

Hi Trance,

We don't get home everyday at lunchtime. It could be 2 or 3 days a week it just depends, other days we wont be there till 5:45. I am home one day a week and my OH is home at lunch 1 or 2 other days it just depends. Would it upset her getting fed early 3 days and later for 2?
Poo is not solid, I think she is pooping once maybe twice during the day and she does fart :hic

The rescue gave us nuts so I am not sure what they are, I doubt a very high standard as they depend a lot on donations. At the minute though I am feeding her our dogs nuts which are good quality, cant think of the name of them. They gave me tinned food too but Im not giving it to her.
Don't know a lot of her story, she was taken from the pound about a month ago, she was very skinny and I think quite sick. Another fosterer had her for 3 weeks but was moving rented houses and couldnt bring her to the new one. So one person took her for a week and now we have her. So I'm sure it has all been unsettling for her.
Dogs are getting quite a bit of exercise running around together and playing and then I brought them walking last night at 9 and they had a run around the green. We came home and she snoozed in the sitting room, I brought her outside for ten minutes before bed and then she howled when I put her in to bed.

trance · by **trance** » Thu Apr 19, 2022 1:08 pm

Personally I would feed her early on the days you can, the days you can't, just feed her as soon as you get home. The change of dog food will definitely be contributing but I honestly think it's mainly all the moving round she's had in the last month or so plus you don't know what she went through before she ended up in the pound.

I really think you have to give her time, believe me I know how stressful it can be, lying in bed listening to the howling, it's awful and you just think you can't take it much longer but it won't last forever I promise, I really would recommend the crate for night times and give her access to it in the day as well, make it a warm safe place for her to retreat to, always encourage her to go in there with a toy or a treat and give her lots of praise, leave the door open at first in the day and then close the door at nighttime.

We didn't really have chewing with Lily although she would take a shoe and just sort of lick it and 'mind it' and she still does this sometimes, we think maybe this is a throwback to when she had a litter (this is a guess because we don't know if she ever had a litter!!), but our older dog, also a rescue, well he had terrible separation anxiety which manifested itself as chewing, he chewed door frames, carpets, skirting boards, books, magazines, boxes of tissues, he even started on a photo album I had but I managed to salvage that. Anyways, my point being that settled down as well. Again, it just took time, they need time to realise that this is their home now, this is their routine, they get fed twice a day every day so need to worry about when the next meal is coming etc.

Poor thing she really has been pushed from pilar to post, did you say she was a collie cross because collies can be quite highly strung (Lil is a collie cross!!)

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