In reality..do you have to baptise child to get school place

Emme · by **Emme** » Thu May 03, 2022 9:55 pm

I say in reality because I know there are laws against discrimination and all that and I also know Labour are changing the laws but say hypothetically (and please don't quote me as this is one post I'll def be deleting!) a child wasn't baptised into the catholic faith, or was of a different faith and the only school around was a catholic one, would they still have to take them or have they the right to refuse? In other words what are your experiences?

betty draper · by **betty draper** » Thu May 03, 2022 10:08 pm

As you may have noticed I'm a tad crazy at the best of times. I don't yet have any children, but have NO intention of baptising when we do.

I got so sick of having to defend my beliefs and principles so I emailed the gael scoile I intend sending our as yet non existent children and the principal for back to me saying that, yes they will accept non baptised but to be aware that the school has a catholic ethos.

Anne Cordelia Shirley · by **Anne Cordelia Shirley** » Fri May 04, 2022 8:03 am

There are four primary schools near us. One ET, two Catholic and one Gaelscoil which is also Catholic. Ideally I'd like our child to go to ET and I contacted the principle (baby not even here yet!) who told me to register ASAP as they are oversubscribed every year. The other school I'd consider would be Catholic, I went to it myself and, my issue with the ethos and indoctrination aside, its a very good school academically and socially. I wrote to the principle and got confirmation in wiring that our child not being baptised won't affect our getting a place. She very kindly put in writing that as we are living so close to the school (just across the road) we would be the priority for enrollments.

I know the Gaelscoil has refused non Catholic children. I do feel its down to the principle. He's known to be quite dogmatic and, like another school in the news, runs the school like his personal domain. So this school would be out for us. I know other Gaelscoils are fantastic and inclusive but this one isn't. The final school also prioritizes Catholics, children of teachers and siblings, with those of another Christian religion coming before non religious pupils. I have heard locally that this school isn't particularly welcoming of non Catholic children in terms of what's done during religion classes etc.

As each and every school is its own little organization, you need to do your research and find out the enrollment policies in writing.

boodlesdoodles · by **boodlesdoodles** » Fri May 04, 2022 8:14 am

I think if the catholic school is over subscribed then they can choose to accept a catholic child over a non catholic child.
I wont be baptising either, so will have this problem too when the time comes. Hopefully over the next 5yrs we will see some changes to our school system that might make this one problem we dont have to worry about.

micls · by **micls** » Fri May 04, 2022 8:18 am

It's not legally discrimination for a Catholic school to give preference based on their ethos, if they state so clearly in their enrollment policy. So if there's 1 space, 2 kids and 1 is baptised they're well within their legal rights to choose the Catholic one.

In practical terms, it does happen, especially in more popular schools.

Personally, there's no way I'd get a child baptised for that reason (or any tbh), but I'll be sending my child to an Educate Together school is we're living at home so it doesn't matter.

If you strongly want your child going to a Catholic school, ask them for their enrollment policy. I would say it would be an advantage to have them baptised. You have to decide if it's a good enough reason for you to do it.

Anne Cordelia Shirley · by **Anne Cordelia Shirley** » Fri May 04, 2022 8:19 am

It should also be remembered that the Irish school system allows discrimination on religious grounds to preserve the ethos of an institution. The Equal Status Act has a specific clause allowing organisations such as schools to refuse entry to those who might affect the ethos-this is why the secondary school in the news was legally allowed to refuse a place to a pregnant teenager, its a Catholic school teaching the Catholic ethos so the school was entitled to use this as a reason to refuse a place. Also every single school has its own enrollment policy so while one school might be fine about admitting non Catholics/Protestants/Muslims, another school might be much stricter.

Anecdotally, I have heard that when a school is asked to put its reason for refusing a place on religious grounds in writing a place is suddenly found for the child. Just going on what I've heard around my area!

R2theB · by **R2theB** » Fri May 04, 2022 9:03 am

Very informative thread. No kids yet but I have zero intention of baptising mine. A militantly atheist friend of OH's baptised his son so he could go to his old secondary school, a very Catholic school but one of the best in the country. I must say I found that really bizarre, I personally wouldn't want my child to go to a school with such a strong religious ethos. I really really hope there are more ET schools by the time I have kids of a school-going age.

shootingstar · by **shootingstar** » Fri May 04, 2022 9:23 am

Ive enrolled my 3 year old for 3 schools and 2 of them looked for her bapisimal cert. The 3rd school didnt require it as she would qualify for the 3rd school based on her address and the fact that her grandad and myself went to this school. But all 3 are practicing catholic schools. The main reason why I baptised her was for the whole schooling issue, we are not church goers, we go to church when we have to, weddings, funerals, christmas and anniversary masses.

Mari yay · by **Mari yay** » Fri May 04, 2022 9:43 am

Ladies,
If your child isn't baptised and they end up in a Catholic school, what's the situation re communion and confirmation? Are they prevented from doing this, although it would be pointless anyway if they are not baptised. Does the child just sit out the communion/confirmation classes?

Anne Cordelia Shirley · by **Anne Cordelia Shirley** » Fri May 04, 2022 9:49 am

Mari yay wrote:Ladies,
If your child isn't baptised and they end up in a Catholic school, what's the situation re communion and confirmation? Are they prevented from doing this, although it would be pointless anyway if they are not baptised. Does the child just sit out the communion/confirmation classes?

It depends on the school's policies. The Catholic school which would be my second choice accommodates children who aren't Catholic by supervising them outside the classroom during religion classes (a change which was made recently). I have more of an issue with prayers at non religion class times, like my child can sit out a religion class but I am concerned about prayers before lunch, references to God making flowers, and the loss of teaching time for the sacraments during the school day. However, I think you have to be pragmatic and weigh up the pros and cons of each schools' approach. Myself and DH have come to the realization that even though we had a fully Catholic education, we're now totally non religious so we'll deal with the school situation as best we can. Like it or not, we can't wait until the school system is more balanced to educate our children so we just have work with what we have (while lobbying for change!).

zoesmama · by **zoesmama** » Fri May 04, 2022 9:53 am

Our children are baptised but not for school reasons.

Our 4 Options for Primary School were :-

1. Our local school which has a Catholic ethos and gives Priority to children who are baptised Catholic and living in the parish ahead of those not baptised.
2. A Gaelscoil also with a Catholic Ethos which also gives Priority to children who are baptised Catholic ahead of those not.
3. An ET school
4. A Multi-Denominational Gaelscoil

Our preferences were 4., 2., 3, and 1 in that order. We got a place for DS in all 4 schools and chose the Multi-Denominational Gaelscoil. But we had DS's name down for all 4 since he was 4 weeks old.

If I really wanted my child to get into a school which prioritised baptised Catholic kids ahead of those who are not then they would obviously be at a disadvantage if not baptised but it really depends on numbers for the individual school on whether that actually makes a difference in reality.

Mari yay · by **Mari yay** » Fri May 04, 2022 9:56 am

There is a school near us that husband says is non denominational, but it's called St John's. I would have thought it doesn't sound non denominational if it's a saints name. But then is non denominational different to the ET schools, like is it that they will accept non catholic children but they still teach religion to the catholic kids?

It's not very nice to think of a child having to leave the classroom for a period while religion is being taught, but I'd imagine we're a LONG way off getting the church out of running the schools.

Anne Cordelia Shirley · by **Anne Cordelia Shirley** » Fri May 04, 2022 9:59 am

Mari Yay, ask the school for its enrollment policy and ethos. I think some schools retain the historical name of a school that may once have been religious but no longer are. There are no non-demonational schools in Ireland, only multidemoninational. All schools have to teach a religious programme, but in non religious schools its a 'this is what people who are Catholic/Buddist/Jewish etc' way, its not indoctrination.

zoesmama · by **zoesmama** » Fri May 04, 2022 10:02 am

Our kids go to a Multi-Denom Gaelscoil. They accept children of all faiths and none and there is no priority for any Religion. No religion is taught (as in indoctrinated) in school hours. There are optional (and you pay extra) Catholic classes after school hours. The kids learn about different faiths and have a Religion of the Month so for example this month is Buddhism and they learn about how that faith works and the basic concepts.

ructions · by **ructions** » Fri May 04, 2022 10:03 am

R2theB wrote: A militantly atheist friend of OH's baptised his son so he could go to his old secondary school, a very Catholic school but one of the best in the country.

I know a couple of people who did the same, for them the school's reputation and/or being the right feeder school to secondary was more important than the religious ethos of the school.

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